...
Think about it for a second.
Are you laughing yet?
In Portuguese, it's even funnier, as there is rarely a distinction between the words "change" and "exchange" from English (both often translate to trocar). If you go to a store, the "exchanges" station is called "trocas." However, the baby changing station in the bathroom uses the same verb:
It's great. If you are tired of your baby and want a new one, you can bring it to a magical station in the bathroom and trade it in. :)I crack myself up.
In other, less entertaining translation news, I'm really burnt out on trying to make friends with Brazilian girls my age. The situation with Carol and her friends last week was a fluke-- I'm still trying to understand what was different about them that allowed us to continue an enjoyable conversation for an entire evening.
What I usually experience are quiet, emotionless girls who sit, silent, at their boyfriend's sides and refuse to answer more than the bare minimum to my questions. Perhaps they believe that this bare minimum gives the guise of being polite, but it doesn't. What I do in America to make friends doesn't work here, and I don't know if there's something to the language that I'm missing, or something bigger about the culture that I can't compete with.
Let's take last night, for example. We met up with some old friends of Alexandre's for dinner-- 2 guys he grew up with that he hadn't seen for a couple years. One of them brought his girlfriend, who seemed nice enough at first. We introduced ourselves, talked about what drinks were good at the restaurant, etc. Then the 3 boys started catching up, talked about medicine and science (one of the guys is also in med school, and the other is studying chemical engineering), and gossiped about old friends that neither the girlfriend nor I knew. Since she and I were kind of left on our own (typically not a thing that bothers me), I tried to start up a few conversations with her. I mean, my Portuguese isn't perfect, but it's certainly good enough for 1-on-1 small talk like this:
Me: So, how'd you and your boyfriend meet?
Girl: Oh, at the hospital here.
Me: Oh, are you studying medicine, too?
Girl: No.
Me: Oh... okay... [questions start running through my head: Was he your patient or something, then? Were you his? He doesn't work at this hospital, he studies in another city...wtf! But I can't ask "so, um, how then?" So I try--] So... what do you do?
Girl: I'm an x-ray technician in the hospital. I just finished my training program.
Me: Oh, that's cool. How do you like working there?
Girl: It's fine.
...
I waited a few minutes, and tried again.
Me: So, it must be difficult, with your boyfriend studying in another city.
Girl: I'm used to it.
Me: Oh, I guess that's good...how do you guys stay in touch?
Girl: Telephone, email.
Me: Oh, okay. How often do you get to see each other?
Girl: Every 2 weeks.
Me: Wow, even if you're used to it, that can be torture sometimes, I'm sure! [trying REALLY hard to be my pleasant, friendly self]
Girl: He's here for more time during vacations.
Me: Oh, well that's good then. You can spend more time together.
....
My last-ditch effort:
Me: So, do you live here with your family?
Girl: Yup.
Me: Very nice. We live together. We have a cat.
Girl: I have a dog.
Me: Oh, how cute! What's his name?
Girl: Tobi.
Me: Fun! What kind of dog is he?
Girl: I don't know. He's really small.
Me: How cute. Your family probably has a lot of fun with him.
Girl: Yup.
----
JESUS Christ! It's like pulling teeth! The damn girl didn't offer up a single thing for me to latch onto, didn't bother asking me a single question, didn't work with me at all. Alexandre had tried to give her a few things to ask me about-- "oh, Danielle's an English teacher"-- and "yeah, that crazy guy you're talking about sounds like Danielle's crazy boss--" but she apparently couldn't be bothered.
This is exactly the same thing I experienced at the Christmas party for the job with the less crazy boss. I was sitting across from the accounting woman from the school who I barely knew, and the conversation went the same way-- me, trying to start a conversation, and her, systematically letting it fall down dead. So I gave up on her and tried the girl next to me-- an 18-year-old student (not mine). The same thing happened. After a while of that crap, I left. It's also a common occurrence at the barbecues with Alexandre's med school friends. The guys are all sitting together in one area, and the girls in another. I try to give Alexandre time with the boys, and do my best to work my way in with the girls. There are typically around 20-30 of them at a party, but no dice. Almost all of them (save one or two of the nicer ones) are too busy gossiping and trying to get the boys' attention to maintain a conversation with me.
I understand that sometimes people are shy, but I can't safely say that this is the case here. And Jesus, where is the empathy? I'm the one being dropped into a room full of strangers in a new country, among people who are all easily speaking a language that I don't have complete control over, really putting myself out there. I do my best not to depend on the other people to bring me into the conversation, but Christ, I need these uppity twentysomethings to meet me halfway.
I'd like to think that I'm not some kind of leper. I pride myself on being able to make friends with people easily. Not necessarily new best friends, but I at least have a knack for cocktail party talk. I'm good at bringing people together at parties if they have similar interests. I'm a good listener. I know a little about a lot of topics. I don't just talk about myself the whole time. (Right?)
But here, I'm missing something, and I'd really appreciate it if someone could tell me what it is. I don't think it's something overgeneralized, like "all Brazilian girls are snobs, especially the ones with a bit of daddy's money in their pockets." I mean, they make friends with each other. Also, I don't have this problem with Brazilian guys-- the guys at dinner last night were totally friendly and receptive, and the same goes for many of Alexandre's guy friends. So what IS it with the Brazilian counterpart of my gender? Anyone? Anyone?
--------------------------------
On a happier note, we've had a nice weekend with Alexandre's family. Alexandre was trying to be nice and carinhoso and called me "graceful" yesterday, and I laughed at him, and he didn't understand what was so funny. Here's a picture of us at the rest stop on our way here:
I'll try to get some pictures with his family today and I'll put them up later in the week. But in the meantime, any insight into the mysterious working of Brazilian girls would be a big help!
Posts
Maybe you're just out of luck, or they are intimidated by a foreigner :)
ReplyDeleteHi Danielle
ReplyDeleteJust read your blog. But don't think it's just Brazillian girls. Firstly , when I was young I was very shy about talking to people. More, starting up a conversation. If we went to a party I would just sit not move around and converse. I'd speak to anyone if they spoke to me. (somewhat)
But my brother. Uncle Jim. Married a girl Joyce. She was like that girl . Hi Joyce how are you. (fine) did you have a nice trip down (Yeah) how re the girls (fine). and that was my sister in law. But when you get her on the phone she doesn't stop. when my brother was alive and I used to call him in England, she would answer and keep talk, talk. until in the end I would have to say. May I speak to Jimmie and she would get him. So as I say it isn't only Brazil. I have become much more outspoken since being here than I was in England. Much to grandads' annoyance.
Anyate, glad you had a good time. Love you both xoxoxoxo
Oh, sorry you're going through that. I've been there - am there. It could be that they are shy or intimidated... or just plain bitchy. I think there really is something about a certain type of upper middle class Brazilian girl between the age of 16 and maybe 25. I've met a lot that are extremely shallow, spoiled and self-absorbed. Not all! Certainly not, and not limited to Brazil - but I've definitely had many of those cold conversations that lie there like a dead fish with more than my fair share - both here and with Brazilian girls I've met abroad. That chip on the shoulder thing also seems particularly endemic to girls from Rio. I hate to be judgmental like that (but if it walks like a duck...) I too have had a hard time making friends here. Actually, I say that, but I met an amazing friend my first week. We could barely communicate in the beginning but we became great friends -- and then she moved to B.H. (Maybe if I kicked my butt a little and wrote in portuguese (groan) we'd actually keep on on email!) My goal for this year is to make some good girlfriends. I really miss the girl-times and the tight group I left behind in NYC. Maybe we can give each other pointers on how to go about it!
ReplyDeleteOh - to answer your question on how I landed here... I married a Brazilian who had been living in New York for 18 years. A few years later we decided to move - give it a whirl - and ended up in his home town.
I love your observations about living here. spot on!
-Robyn
OK OK OK First of all your "Anyone? Anyone?" comment is straight out of Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Must be a teacher thing.
ReplyDeletehahahahahahah
Girls are girls dont let it get to you. You will make friends. Just give it time.
But in the meantime....hhahahahahah
The next time a girl gives you short one word answers. Tell her you do not like the bread in Brazil because it is stale....
hahahahahahhahahhha
You crack yourself up. I crack myself up. Its a family thing.
I love you
Have fun
Hi Alex
Me
Danielle,
ReplyDeleteI might be the "making part of a group" thing...remember?
We are individualistic, Brazilians are not, they tend to become part of a group.
The guys like you said were part of a group "Friends" from school, you and the girls were not!
You were just there for that one ocasion, maybe the girls were just shy and maybe they just didn't want to invest any time on someone who didn't belong to their "social group".
I could be completely off but I thought it would be a start.
Ray
So you think it's a generalization of Brazilian women? Are you sure it's not just the crowd you'd hang out with here in the U.S.? Maybe it's the city you live in down there. I mean, I have a lot of trouble relating to females our age here in English... so maybe it's a combination. The culture, the age (pretty self-indulgent), and the type of people you're hanging out with. They may just be the kind of females who aren't interested in talk about anything more than mindless things. Maybe there isn't a great, worldly female population you've come into contact with yet. Good job trying though. I probably would have given up long before you.
ReplyDeleteoh and you look B-E-A-utiful in these pics!
ReplyDeleteWell, at least the girls over there are more up front with their indifference. I think in the same situations over here, girls tend to fake interest. Have you ever been forced to talk to people at parties because your friends know eachother or whatever and that person gives you that waxy smile and nods a lot while looking around the room when they think you're not looking? At least the Brazilian girls are clear that they don't care about talking to you, and I think that is less annoying.
But, still rude. I would've lost patience long before you. Oh hey I think my boss is giving the go ahead that I can leave, will post more tommorrow. late! :)
I used to live in Bauru, Brazil when I was 17. I found that once I made one girlfriend, I suddenly had 5 more. If your boyfriend's sister is of similar age, maybe the two of you could hangout and she could introduce you to her friends. It was easier for me to meet people with my friend Mariana introducing me and telling everyone I was from the US. Being a foreigner in a small town was a good conversation starter. Basically, I found that talking about popular t.v. shows at the time, shopping or even asking questions about Brazil or how to say things in Portuguese were good conversation starters. My friends there said they loved teaching me about Brazil and having me help them with their English, especially when they had homework. another idea is to have people over at your apartment, maybe in a different setting (especially since it is your house), the girls will be more welcoming and friendly. I hope this helps you make some girlfriends, my experience wouldn't have been the same without them.
ReplyDeleteWow I cannot believe we are in complete opposite positions. I am brazilian and living in the us for an year and a half, and I'm also having a hard time making friends. I don't know but I have the impression that conversation doesn't flow when I'm speaking english.
ReplyDeleteAbout you I think the problem is the group you met, or maybe the fact that when you get to know a group of girls in a med school barbecue (I was one some time ago) they usually study together, you know in med schools you have classes all day, for six years with the same people so people tend to form strong bonds and sometimes it can be hard to let outsiders get in their groups.
But I have to admit that people in Brazil are not as used with foreigners as americans so they are not really patient.
But don't worry soon enough will find someone that will become your friend.
Hi Danielle! Totally hooked on your blog. I'm technically American but also consider myself Brazilian and I can totally relate to everything you wrote in this post. You don't know how many times I've had to tell my friends that I have trouble relating to Brazilian females...it just doesn't happen. It's always those conversations you describe...yet I'm best friends with tons of Brazilian guys and we have great conversations! What gives?!?!
ReplyDeleteOh, fucking Brazilian chicks. Who do they think they are? Tupiniquim bitches!
ReplyDeleteIt's really interesting to read this. I'm friendly (I think), and I talk to people, sometimes I even dance with them... and sometimes, when I'm drunk, I make friends with homeless people and even share mu hot dog with them.
These girls you've been hanging out with probably have nothing to say (that's probably the real reason they don't talk to you, at least it's the only reason I can think of). When I meet people like that, I try to have some fun with them, like:
"So, do you prefer Godard's New Wave or Buñuel's surrealism? Do you think they're all a consequence of the German expressionism or mostly based on the Frankfurt School studies?"
My grandmother once told a woman a good one: the woman was a being a bitch and we were at this woman's birthday party. So my grandmother looks at her and says: "You know who else was born on your birthdate? Ernest Hamingway" (silence) Granny continues: "...and he killed himself".
If they're not going to be your friends anyway, you might as well have fun with them.
Enjoy!
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI just found out your blog and I think it is fascinating. This post stroke a chord with me, since I'm a Brazilian living in Sweden for four years now and I have similar problems here. Swedes are not known by being open and social, you know, not before some alcohol, at least. :-)
I totally understand your problem with the local girls. You know, I'm Brazilian and I was kinda used to the way they are but after I came here I cannot stand some of the girls from my country anymore, *especially* the upper class ones. In Sweden girls are really feminist and independent, probably much more than in US, and I really learnt to appreciate that. (Although I think some go too far sometimes; for instance some girls get offended if you want to pay the whole dinner bill. But that's another topic.) Every time I go back and get exposed again to the "machista" way of thinking that people have, including girls who perpetuate that shit, I hate it. I even avoid touching this subject because my friends look at me like I'm from another planet or something.
Guys want bibelots and girls are happy to be it... It's sad.
Well, good luck! And keep writing, please!
Hey Danielle, I was actually really relieved to read this post, because I feel exactly the same way about Brazilian girls, but was beginning to think it was just me, or perhaps just the girls in the town I live in! I don't want to make sweeping generalisations easier, but sometimes it seems that if you are not a man, then they cannot be bothered! You say that they obviously make friends with each other, but my husband (Brazilian) tells me that it's part of the culture that unfortunately most groups of female friends cannot, and do not trust each other. I didn't want to believe this, as I thought it was unfair and also a little sad. But unfortunately, my attempts at making friends have ended either in the same way as yours, or with me being totally stabbed in the back. One girl, who was actually a student of mine, came out with us one night, along with some mutual acquaintances, and she basically ended up trying to kiss my husband in front of my face! Granted, she was very drunk. But then this girl's friend, who I hadn't even met, started calling my husband and inviting him out! In another instance, a girl I had become friends with suddenly disappeared off the face of the earth.
ReplyDeleteSo yeah, I can totally empathise with you about that. By the way, please don't think I'm saying that all of them are horrible - I know a couple of really nice Brazilian girls. But even so, I find it difficult to get close to them, and nowadays I'm a little reluctant to!
By the way, I'm English, and I moved to Brazil two years ago with my boyfriend, who is now my husband. I'm also an English teacher, like you, so I guess we have a fair bit in common!
Anyway, I hope you've had better luck forming friendships since you wrote this post!