Prepare for a pretty negative entry. If you read this blog for the funny stories or the linguistic observations, you can go ahead and skip this one.
A few months ago, I wrote about how I was having a hard time making friends.
I have lived here for 16 months now. This situation has not improved.
Do you know how long 16 months is? I am a social person. But first and foremost, I'm a human who needs a social group, who needs to be included and understood and needed.
Never in my life did I have a hard time making friends before I moved to Brazil. When I was a kid, we switched elementary schools. No bigs. Switched middle schools. Allright. I moved to the OC for college. Doable. Transferred universities. Even better. Went to Spain for a few weeks to visit some friends, and made friends with their friends, some of whom I still talk to today. Moved again for grad school. Got that friend stuff taken care of.
And now I'm here.
The first few months, I was patient. I didn't speak any Portuguese and I was too overwhelmed and busy to worry about making new friends, anyway. People kind of ignored me at social gatherings, but I chaulked it up to the language barrier.
I think I can safely say that my Portuguese is good enough for friendships now. I still have a hard time in a group discussion (do you know how impossible turn taking is in your non-native langauge? If you've spent a considerable amount of time living in a country that doesn't speak your language, you probably do). But I think that language is less of the problem today. The underlying problem is cultural.
What I want to dispel here is the myth that I hear seriously at least once a week, either in other blogs or from students asking me if it's true: "Brazilians are more open, warm, and welcoming than Americans! Americans are so cold and closed-off!"
People from both countries make this assumption because Brazilians kiss their friends to say hello and automatically turn your name into a nickname (after an hour with me, people start calling me Da or Dani) or call you "querido/querida" (like sweety, honey) all the time.
For me, this is not the defintion of a warm, open culture. A warm, open culture includes people that makes sure that no one is left out, especially in small, social settings. In a warm, open culture, if one girl goes out with another girl to hang out at least 5 or 6 times, the girls will eventually start talking about personal information and the conversation will not stick to superficial nonsense that is only good for the first couple of nights out.
But I'm not here to knock Brazilians or Brazilian girls. I mean, they make friends with each other, somehow. There is just some secret handshake that NO one has taught me yet.
In both countries, of course it's easier to make friends if you're a student, and in both countries, many friendships that people enjoy as adults are friendships that were formed in childhood or in college. But I don't think it's enough to say "oh, well you didn't grow up in Brazil, and Brazilians only have friendships from their childhood." That goes against human nature and can't possibly be true.
I've met some nice girls here. A fellow teacher, a few students that I've done social things with. Even my boss. But the biggest issue I have is with these girls opening up. I can only talk about how I'm different for so long. I can only answer the same questions so many times. These are the questions I am asked the most:
1. Why are you here?
2. 'Are you liking' Brazil? [translation from Portuguese grammar]
3. Do you miss your family?
4. What is the typical food in America? Hamburgers, right? What? Americans don't eat hamburgers every day? Then what do they eat? What do mothers cook? Why can't you tell me one easy thing like "rice, beans and feijoada"?
5. Why are all Americans fat?
These are nice, logical (albeit a bit naive) questions for someone to ask when they meet me. The problem is that it rarely gets past this. I am very happy when people ask me what I think about Obama or anything more specific than those questions above.
I spend most of my time in conversations trying to focus on things that I have in common with the girls. I try to get them to talk about what they do in their free time. I try to ask questions about their friends and family (who they're close to, etc). I try to ask questions about their jobs and/or classes and what their peers/coworkers/clients are like, and if they have any funny/interesting stories. But 9 times out of 10, the other girl offers up a short answer and brings the topic back to comparing things like food and the price of electronics between Brazil and the US. Yes, ok. Let me tell what I know about that for the 1,000th time. Because you're the first person to ever ask me if it's true that there are no churrascarias in the US because beef is more expensive and can't be sold in an all-you-can-eat style.
It's not completey the other person's fault. They're sincerely interested in getting the truth behind the various rumors they've heard about the US. But it just shows that that's all they see me as: The American. A nativa. A branquinha. A gringa. I'm not like, a person with the same problems that they have. It seems like they don't see me as someone with the potiental to be a close friend because they don't offer up anything about themselves and don't ask me anything of substance about myself.
I would say that there are 5 girls that I could call "friends," and out of those 5, I would say that 2 are just now starting to see me as, ya know, a human.
I spend way too much time at home, bored and depressed and playing Farm Town on Facebook. The boyfriend's getting tired of me. I'm getting tired of me. I know that I need to just initiate more girl time with the 5 girls mentioned above, particulary the 2 that I connect with a bit more.
But I also need something else, and I'm honestly out of ideas. Brazil lacks the cultural gem that is the community college. If I were in Sao Paulo, maybe I would've figured something out a long time ago, but living in Countrytown Interior, my options are a bit more limited. I would LOVE to take Portuguese classes with other foreigners, but there aren't any. We called the schools. One school had an Iraqi businessman taking private classes for a while (not sure what he'd think of me...). I would even consider joining a gym (sigh), but we looked into the one here within walking distance and I couldn't join because I didn't have a Brazilian ID or any utility bills in my name. I would really enjoy some kind of volunteering group, and I've made a point to ask my students if there's anything like that in our city, like an Americorps or Habitat for Humanity kind of thing. Exercising just for the sake of exercising? Not really my thing. But getting up on Saturday morning to feed peeps or paint houses? I'm all over that. But... nothing so far. One thing I have been recommended is to start taking dance classes. I'm totally willing to try new things, but ME joining a dance class with beautiful, skinny, tan, coordinated Brazilian women is where I draw the line. I know that the negative effects on my self-esteem will outweigh any potiential benefit to my self-esteem as a result of more friends.
So someone. Please. Tell me. What.do.Brazilian.adults.do. It can't be true that EVERYONE just sits in their houses all night and watches a novela dàs oito e o campeonato brasileiro. People have to have hobbies. People have to have the drive to be social and involved in their community. I can't be the only one.
I need to be part of a society again.
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I know you said this was going to be a humorless post, but there was a part that actually made me laugh ...
ReplyDeleteyour list of questions that people most frequently ask you. Those are pretty much the exact same bunch, and word for word, that I was continually asked when I lived in Germany.
I struggled to make friends while I lived abroad, too. Although, my experience was much worse than yours, judging by your post. I got close to the point where I could barely function, I was so lonely.
I wish I could tell you how to make the situation better, but I don't know you or your situation on a personal level, and I don't know any concrete answer, regardless. I can only tell you what helped me.
I think that, like you said, initiating more activities with those two girls would be a great place to start. Eventually I was able to make an effort like that, and even if it didn't always work out the way I wanted, it made me feel like I was trying, like I wasn't helpless.
Also, I will say this: food. You've probably already tried this one, but truthfully, this is where things turned around for me. It took me a while, but I eventually discovered that no one could say no to food. And so everything I planned with my would-be friends, I tried to involve lunch or dinner somehow, lol. Food was a leveling ground for me, because we were all doing the same thing, and maybe, as you described, it was easier for them to see me as a human, rather than the American, when we were all just eating and talking.
Also, I am not a deeply religious person, but I do have a faith I follow. One day I mustered the courage to go to a local church activity and found that those were the _most_ outgoing people I had met in the entire city. I think it must have something to do with the community atmosphere of a church. They were all very accepting of me and asked me "real" questions, like what kind of movies I liked, etc. It was refreshing to say the least. If you can identify with a church, it could be a great option for you. If you're already trying that, or if you aren't religious, I meant no offense.
I hope things get better soon. Hang in there. :o)
-Sway
http://swaysovay.blogspot.com/
I'm thinking about your post... send me an email if you want, ok!? I've been an expat myself, and I know how hard it becomes sometimes.
ReplyDeleteYou take care.
I hate novelas :) we read books too, we go to parties, bars, concerts. We travel, we learn a new language. We go to the mall, to the beauty saloon, to the church, we meet boys, we date and yes, we share every detail with our girl friends!
ReplyDeleteI'm a brazilian girl, I'm about your age and I'm sorry that you're going through this. It's awful to feel that you're alone no matter how hard you try to make friends and it can lead you to believe that the problem is with you, but it clearly isn't. Needless to say it would be 10x easier to solve this problem if you lived in Sao Paulo or any other big city, where people are more open-minded and you wouldn't be seen as an "alien" no matter how long you've been living there.
That's a shame, really, you seem to be a cool girl and a good friend, I'd totally invite you to hang out with my friends if we lived in the same city (I'm in Recife). Ok, let's try to *help* with what we have now. If I could make a suggestion it'd be: let's change venues! hang out to different places, search for friends in places where people are more opened to talk and connect with people like church or practicing sports. I have seen american people making large groups of friends either by practicing sports or going to the church. Even if you hate those places, you should try for the sake of your social life.
Anyways, be strong, face your problem, find a solution and win! I'm rooting for ya.
;Dear Danielle,
ReplyDeleteI think one of the reasons for your difficulty in making friends is that you are in a smaller town, not as cosmopolitan as Sao Paulo or Rio de Janeiro for example.
I can assure you these girls must be really intimidated because you are a foreigner, and Brazilians sadly have a strong "inferiority complex" in general and are always under the impression that foreigners are better and superior and they always seek your approval of every thing Brazilian.
Some girls might think you are leaving soon and wouldn't be interested in a deeper relationship.
Hear are some thoughts, you could try to invite them for something less formal than a social gathering during a weekend, like going to the Mall clothes shopping during the week or find out where do they get their hair and nails done and try to go when they go, I think they will open up to you when and if you get involved in daily activities with them.
When you see them again, make a compliment about their shoes and ask where did they get it and if they would take you to the store sometime or make a compliment about their hair or nail and do the same.
After a few experiences at the Mall or the Hair and Nail Salon you could try to plan a trip to the beach, camping, white water rafting or something else nearby your town, that would be a great bonding experience.
I hope it helps.
You are not alone, I have heard this from many American friends living in Brazil and from Brazilian friends living here in the US.
Good luck
Ray
i am reading this instead of doing my spanish homework.
ReplyDeletei think you should DEFINITELY try a sports team. haha! no, but seriously, if you can find a social sports club thats not super competitive, they are loads of fun and it doesnt matter if youre any good. i played softball on diff teams with a few girls who had literally never picked up a ball before. esp if you try something more "unique" and not something typical that everyone has played since childhood (soccer, baseball, etc), it EXTRA doesn't matter if youre good. if anything, you might adopt marginally more coordination that you can take home with you! :)
I completely relate to this post. I always joke that I am going to have a flyer printed up with the answers to those questions, wither that or go postal...
ReplyDeleteI have found that the friends I have made in Brazil were with people that were somehow out of their comfort zone. Most people seal their circle of friends in high school, max in college. The Brazilians that I made friends with as an exchange student and now that I live here were always somehow in transition from this core group (new town, new baby, new school) or had a real interest in foreigners (I have one good friend I met 17 years ago that started as an interest in me being American, so it is not always all bad), so they were willing to get to know someone new.
Yes, it helps if you are doing some sort of activity like sports, but I rowed crew in Rio while an exchange student and there still was not tons of social stuff happening after practice until months later. I think that Ray´s suggestions are good and you have a couple people you can start with. Is there any activity at all that you would be interested in? If the city you live in has a federal university, there should be something in the extension services that could get involved in. Good luck.
From the time I spent in Brazil (3 weeks), I noticed that for the most part people generally aren't like Americans who like/are used to sharing personal details and talking about themselves. Even in "hanging out" social situations, the conversation was focused on other things, though superficial not always...
ReplyDeleteWhere's your boyfriend's family?! One thing's for sure, my husband's family made me feel super welcome and within the enormous immediate/extended family, I was able to make those "girlfriend" connections you're missing. Hang in there.
I wish you'd move to São Paulo. We could make a thing of it. Seriously. I'm there... and laughing a the "If you only lived in SP" concept. It's exactly the same here!! I've been here for 10 years now and can honestly not call anyone a 'close' friend. Thank goodness for the internet. I could relate to your post on so many levels, right down to the wording.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if it's the same where you are, but here, they talk over each other. Take turns talking? Never! I'm soft spoken and the very idea of talking over someone else is horrifying. How on earth they have meaningful conversations when all 5 in the group talk at the same time and at the same volume never ceases to amaze me.
Ray has some good ideas... practical things. I found Orkut.com (something I vowed to partake in) helped to see what they do and talk about. In Brazil *everyone* does Orkut, much like overseas *everyone* does Facebook.
You seriously play Farm Town? ;)
Eek, I really don't know what to say to help you out :( I feel like it's GOTTA be the small town thing. There isn't anything to do in small towns, in the U.S. either. And everyone's a little more narrow-sighted about the world. In small towns everyone knows each other's business, but that doesn't mean they actually KNOW each other. Then in your situation you add a different culture on top of that and different ways of communicating (culturally, socially) and that makes it all the more hard. I'm sorry you're feeling this way, and still after so long. Keep looking for volunteer work, even if it's yourself just volunteering to work somewhere like a school or something. Love you.
ReplyDeleteHi Danielle,
ReplyDeleteMy name is Jocelyn and I'm amazed by the similarities of our respective situations.
First of all, I also lived in Orange County, went to Berkeley and now am cohabitating with a Brazilian boyfriend! I've been in Porto Alegre for about 3 weeks now and I cam across your blog in an effort to find alternative paths to permanent visas. I really appreciate the information you've put out there for everyone.
What city are you living in? After reading your post on the difficulty of finding close friends, it'd be great to get in touch!
Hope all is well and your smiles are many. Thank you again for your blog.
Best regards,
Jocelyn
jocelyn.blore@gmail.com
Danielle - found your post awhile ago looking for expats that would be in Brazil, read this post but not all the comments...
ReplyDeleteSome thoughts that ccame to my mind -- how do I treat non-Americans here in America? Am I treating them as an Us and Them? Am I sterotyping some because of their appearance and my past experiences with the people of their heritege? Have I really invited any of them to be IN my life, PART of my life? Where am I limiting myself within my own "box" that is really not serving my needs? Am I keeping my vulnerability safe so to keep myself feeling safe?
It is true as the one of the few comments I read that churches tend to have more community and friendlier people... it is part of our faith (sans religion)...
The hardest thing I had to learn was allowing my vulnerability to be an attraction rather than being a thing of hurt shame... it's not easy, but it does great wonders in opening up the doors as it levels the playing field in all languages...
Hope all is improving, looking forward to your future posts...
Maybe if you weren't so friggin whiny and unpleasant you'd find it easier to make friends
ReplyDeleteThanks, Trobin! I'll keep that in mind!
ReplyDeleteBy the way, isn't the internet awesome? It lets you be a rude asshole with the cowardly anonymity of a blank profile! Congrats! You're a winner.
hey...just a another note from an English girl living with her Brazilian boyfriend in Brazil.
ReplyDeleteI think you hit the nail on the head with all of your comments, details change from city to city but the main gist is the same!
Just two thing from my end: surely in "jeitinho" Brazil it should be possible to strong-arm the gym into giving you membership - in my neck of the woods I've managed to wangle most things.
Secondly, dancing. Totally go for it: yes you may be the only white girl amongst slender beauties who've been samba-ing since birth, BUT because (in my opinion) Brazilians aren't inhibited about bodies and movement, no one will care how good or bad you are, as long as you can have a giggle (and trust me, there are Brazilian girls who can't move either!).
Hope that was a teeny bit helpful,
Abraços
Wow I'm annoyed, Blogger just deleted my comment!
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I'm another (UK)-Expat living in Brazil and wanted to add my own two cents worth to your dilemma (which I totally get - details may change from city to city but its basically the same all over!)
First, the gym. Surely you should be able to use a "jeitinho" to get gym membership? I've never really had any problems, especially for unofficial things like gyms, cell-phones, etc...
Second, dancing. If I were you I'd definetly go for it. Although it seems most Brazilians were born dancing Samba, there are some who are just as uncordinated as us. Plus, my dancing classes (Flamenco) here are really laid back, everyones just there to have fun and no one cares if you make mistakes.
Hope thats perhaps somehow helpful,
Boa Sorte!
another heartfelt post that hit home. i don't think its just being in a small town, i had a very hard time making friends in Rio and Fortaleza too, big cities full of immigrants, people of every description, people who had traveled, who were "educated".
ReplyDeleteafter 14 years with a brazilian partner and time to think/read/reflect, i've come to the realization that perhaps it is as simple as the idea that "friendship" and "intimacy" are cultural constructs like many other things that seem more obvious. it feels like those words should describe very universal emotional experiences, but perhaps they don't. those emotional experiences we (meaning here you as i read you and I) associate with those words are certainly human and universal experiences, but they may come about in completely different culturally defined situations and be connected to other words and norms.
my idea of friendship and intimacy is that with friends who i like and trust (and its mutual), i feel safe, i'm open with the good and bad, there is a sense of spontaneity and honesty and un-selfconsciousness that is truly wonderful and valuable. it is what makes life in the outside world of work, negotiation, conflict (and its avoidance) bearable. there isn't a sense of needing to perform, not as much anyway. there is a sense of being able to really let it all hang out, tell it like it is, have a sounding board for ideas and thoughts and feelings, to get advice, to confess sins and hope for forgiveness.
i don't think this is the expectation in general in Brazil. i've read so many blogs lately i can't remember where i read it (embarrassing if it is you!), but the blogger wrote that there seemed to be an inverse relationship between intimacy and friendship in Brazil. the more you know someone, the less intimate and more casual it gets. this really describes what i've observed myself.
i know that my partner's relationships with his friends and family looks utterly barren and bizarre to me. they don't talk about ANYTHING i would consider important, emotional, risky, vulnerable, doubtful, joyful, deep, profound, etc. my partner, the youngest child, left the home he was born in to move with a foreigner to another country (a man no less!), left his friends, his job, his family. and his parents never asked him ONCE, who is this person you are moving away with? where will you live? what will you do? what on earth are you thinking? they called him every week to talk about the price of electronics and popular brazilian cultural gossip. it absolutely floored me. my parents and i mostly fight, about politics, religion, the world, everything, but they would never ever have let me emigrate without knowing (and truly worrying) about every single detail. our struggle is part of the way we show our love to each other despite the insurmountable differences between us.
as i understand it now, brazilians provide their friends and often even their family members with a huge amount of space to hide their flaws, weaknesses, failures, etc. that is the way to show love and respect. there is an endless willingness to overlook even the unforgiveable, without even having to discuss or acknowledge it. that is extremely foreign to my way of thinking, but i now see how it might appear to have its own set of benefits. in my partner's family and set of friends, there is an endless easy flow of fofoca, the comfort of nothing being heated, no conflict, no discussions for more than a moment about anything serious, just a pleasant passing of the time. perhaps in a culture as unequal, as competitive, as violent and stressful, as unjust as brazil can be for many of its people, this is the safe space people want, not some hothouse of intimacy and drama, highs and lows, the stuff of novelas and movies. (just the made-up self absorbed drama of the rich and spoiled you already wrote about so well!)
i can't say i've overcome my own cultural bias in how i see the issues of friendship and intimacy. and i must clearly admit that living in the states often has been as lonely as living in any of the other countries where i have lived. in fact, on coming home, america has often seemed like an incredibly lonely place full of sad depressed alienated and falsely cheerful people working themselves to death in order to shop for shit they don't really need or want. still, i find that when i make friends here at home, we have very similar expectations of what it will feel like to both of us and its value for certain kinds of emotional support. our way has its own pitfalls and can include a lot of drama, no doubt, but it has some great payoffs too.
ReplyDeletemy partner has adapted to our way so much that he has more fear of living in brazil again than i do. making friends there is perhaps our greatest fear aside from the usual worries over finding work, paying bills, making a life.
about the endless annoying questions: oh the memories your writing inspires! as a man, i got away with a strategy that might be tougher for you, but it worked quite well for me. my portuguese got pretty good, but there is no doubt it was always pretty blunt. i can't really do subtle in portuguese. i decided to give quite brutal responses to the most common and annoying questions that really threw people off their game. they either then left me alone (crazy american!), or realized that i was not some cartoon or stereotype and in some cases we became friends because they took the risk of actually responding to my unexpected and perhaps often somewhat offensive (certainly not always diplomatic) responses. i found trying to polite trapped me in the invisible mode of being the caricature they expected.
i had my best luck making friends with people who were also outsiders of some sort. once they observed me sticking out in some way, there might come some cautious approaches, then a gradual trust and then the kind of interaction i was craving. it was very risky for them, in retrospect i see that much more clearly. even in the big cities where i lived, conformity, obsession over your public image, a tremendous fear of malicious gossip, these seemed very powerful forces in the lives of the people around me, even those that seemed extremely privileged.
in a small town, there are bound to be others who feel smothered and pressured to conform, but the risk of being close with you as a stranger might seem very high to them. i wonder what might happen if you were more open about your difference and strangeness (those being your fundamental characteristics as an american in brazil).
i invited people to do weird things (volunteering a HUGE one, its not something brazilians in general do so i often had to start completely from scratch and face incomprehension when i suggested things we could do) and once in a while somebody would join me. intimacy, studies have shown, can be triggered by a shared experience of novelty and risk, a very thought provoking idea. its tough i think in brazil, risk avoidance is so fundamental, but its worth a try. i had no luck with food (i'm a cook, i eat food from anywhere exotic and spicy), brazilians in general i found are not keen on trying new foods, so my dinner parties were total failures.
my greatest success was with people of more marginal classes (the ones the rich bitches are afraid of and contemptible towards) and those with plenty of ranting to do of their own, about the US and about Brazil and about the world in general. joint venting followed by caipirinhas and crazy dancing were great bonding experiences. (yes, definitely join a gym and take dancing!)
i'm sorry this is so long, its really inappropriate. i type extremely quickly and your posts really hit home with me and my brain has been overloaded with trying to mentally prepare for living there again. forgive me.
i hope to read more hopeful posts from you on the friend search down the line. beijos:)
Wow! I'm shocked!
ReplyDeleteThis post is from almost 1 year ago. Did things improve since then?
If not, drop me a line, I might be able to still have a few contacts around Ribeirão Preto (mostly musicians, they smoke a lot of pot tho).
I just introduced Tracy (the biologist from California) to my friends in SP and Rio and she really liked them. I know a lot of punk rockers, writers, photographers, etc... mostly drunk artsy tattooed bisexual well read people (you don't get any more open minded than that)!
If any help is needed, you're more than welcome: carolina_sbaile@hotmail.com
Btw, some of the comments here are kind of general. If you can't make friends in a city like SP, you might as well give up on life. There's about 19 million people there! 19 million! Pretty hard that 19 million people will all refuse your friendship, huh?
People talk over each other in São Paulo? Imagine how we do business then, huh? Being the business capital of Latin America is pretty hard when we can't even talk, right? I think Tint knows a SP that, in 24 years, I have never experienced.
Another tip I can give you is to join a website called Couch Surfing. (sort of a myspace for travelers, it used to be really good a few years ago when I moved to Ireland).
Very best!