Diglossia refers to a situation when a group of people (usually a country) uses either (a) 2 separate languages or, more commonly, (b) 2 very different versions of the same language. The people use these 2 versions/languages in a distinct way. One is considered the common, everyday, conversational version, and the second is considered the formal/official/literary version, used in government, education, and the media.
Of course every country and language has formal and informal features. Notice the difference in English between "You guys coming with?" and "Would you care to join us?". So the idea of diglossia is only a matter of degree. But usually the differences between 2 versions of a language can be called a diglossia when there are distinct grammar changes, or when the 2 versions are not mutually intelligible (that means if you speak only one, you can't understand the other).
The most famous diglossia situation (that every linguist learns about as their first example) is with Arabic. But I'd like to promote the theory that Brazil/Portuguese has Diglossia. (I read up on it on Wikipedia and learned that some (good and forward-thinking) Brazilian linguists are starting to agree.)
In Portuguese, there are very distinct grammar choices that are marked as being the Formal version and the Informal version. And more importantly, the Formal version isn't just picked up by native speakers of Portuguese. It has to be formally studied in school. (This is not the case in English. If you're an American, of course you had some grammar classes as a kid, but if you did your required reading in your K-12 years, you have enough experience with English to have a notion of how to be formal and informal.)
So Diglossias happen for different reasons. In the case of Arabic, it's a freakin' old language, and it's spoken in a lot of different countries close together. So the result is that, over time, people in the different countries start making their own rules and changing it up a bit. But since they (usually) want to communicate with each other (and even within their own countries), the old version was maintained (a large way to maintain it was because of the religious factor).
So here's my theory about the Portuguese Diglossia in Brazil:
In Brazil, Diglossia happens because the rate of literacy is relatively low, especially when compared to more developed countries. Think about it. When most people in a country know how to read, they agree on how the language "should" be, and it takes longer for the language to change because everyone's learning and using the same version of it. But in the case of Brazil, where literacy is much lower, people aren't learning their native language in school and from the same books. They're learning it from their friends and neighbors. In the absence of known grammar rules, they make up new grammar rules.
The language also is sometimes regularized/simplified in these cases. (Ebonics in the US is KIND OF (up for debate) a Diglossia situation.Think about how Ebonics formed in the United States. In some ways, it's "easier" than standard English. The verb "be" is not conjugated or it just isn't used at all (He be tired). There is no "doesn't". (He don't like that).)
In Portuguese, the Informal version is more simple in some ways. ("Ele liga para você" instead of "Ele te/lhe liga". Only one form of "você!")
The Portuguese Diglossia is most obvious in the cases of pronouns, passives, and subjunctives.
*Pronouns are things like I, you, me, he, him, she, her, etc.
*Passive is like "the house was built" instead of "He built the house."
*Subjunctive is the devil and doesn't really exist in English the way it does in Latin languages.
So okay. You might be getting bored now. The point is, there are 2 versions of Portuguese. Neither one is "wrong." It is a Diglossia situation. Everyone who studies Linguistics at a decent American university knows this.
However, studying linguistics (well, "letras") in a Brazilian university (at least in one of the blah ones around here) means that the only introduction to (what they think is) linguistics that students get is that they finally learn the Formal version of Portuguese really well, and then they go around thinking that they speak Portuguese better than everyone else. Except they speak exactly the same. Because they use both versions. BECAUSE THERE ARE TWO VERSIONS.
The result of my hunt for a Portuguese teacher has been that no one has been able to grasp this concept. They're all very excited to teach me the super Formal version that no one speaks on a daily basis. Then I ask them questions like:
What's the difference between "me ajuda" and "ajude-me"? (These both mean "Help me".)
And they say:
"Me ajuda" is wrong. "Ajude-me" is right.
And then I say:
But you just said "Me ajuda." Plus, I hear imperatives like that all the time. I even see it in subtitles.
And then they say:
What? No. Well, everyone says it, but it's wrong.
And then I say:
How is it wrong if everyone says it?
And they say:
Oh, well, because Brazilians can't speak Portuguese.
UGHHHHHHHHHHHH.
So at least in the case of imperatives, I've since figured out which is considered the Formal version and which is the Informal version. But no teacher is going to work for me if they have these notions like "the vernacular version of our diglossia language is wrong" or "Brazilians can't speak Portuguese."
I really need them to have this distinction so they can correct me correctly. Does that make sense? When I make a mistake in Portuguese, I need them to say one of the following:
(1) That's the informal version. This is a formal situation.
(2) That's the formal version. This is an informal situation.
(3) You made that up from Spanish. It's ungrammatical in Portuguese.
(4) You made that up from English. It's ungrammatical in Portuguese.
(They have to know the difference between "umgrammatical" (no Brazilian would say that and it's a red flag that you're not a native speaker) and "socially incorrect" (saying it like that is just too formal/informal for a given situation).)
So if you're a Portuguese (PSL) teacher, please make this distinction for your poor suffering English-speaking student. If you're learning English, know that this situation exists and ask them to clarify (if they know).
In the meantime, I'm going to keep looking. One of my students has a friend who lived in England for a few years and now teaches English here around town. She's willing to trade English classes for Portuguese classes, but I'm kind of jaded. If I try with this new girl, she'll be my 4th Portuguese teacher.
The first one was completely nonsensical (a lot of this "that's wrong but everyone says it" crap).
The second was was actually kind of decent but she quit on me after 3 weeks. :(
The third one insisted on giving me "cultural lessons" (even though I live here and don't need them-- I need written grammar.... it was really because she was too lazy to prepare anything). Her "cultural lesson" was playing DejaVu videos for me on YouTube. Yeah. Those classes stopped real quick.
I'm wondering if they'll be better teachers if I just pay them instead of trading for classes (that was the situation with the second one, but I'm not sure if it was the money that made her better, or just her experience/education). Do you think that makes a difference?
Should I try again? Do any of you want to be my teacher? :( I have high standards, but I'm a good student, I promise!
I hope you enjoyed my Diglossia lesson. Does this clarify any problems you've had learning Portuguese? I look forward to your comments/stories. :)
I think the biggest difficulty I have with the formal/informal is just when to use it... seeing as in English these two types of speaking are just not as apparent - I believe more people use the informal version of speaking.
ReplyDeleteIt does clarify, however, that when my husband tell me "me ajuda" and "ajude-me" are both right, he's not crazy. I just wish I could understand better WHEN to use, as I just said. :) Thank you for this lesson.
Haha! Then try coming to the Northeast where they have a whole other version of Portuguese!!! Seriously, sometimes my husband {whom is from Rio} doesn't even understand what they say from time to time. Specially when you get 2 nativos together arguing!!
ReplyDeleteI took Portuguese classes off and on for 2 years with the same teacher {from Sao Paulo, whom was good} and I would ask they same questions about formal and informal .. and well, I never got an answer either, just a you know people say it, but its wrong. So I now have learned the "right" way to speak, mixed in with the nativo slang from the Northeast, mixed in with my English accent. Yeah, you could just say my Portuguese is a fluent, funky, fucked-up, mess :-)
Tanya @ www.thelocal.com.br
Subjunctive is the devil!
ReplyDeleteDid I tell you we're moving to Toledo, Ohio in September? You guys can come visit us...
Hey I am Toledo, Ohio and I NEVER see anyone say that they are moving here lol
DeleteThis is only a suggestion. I'm uncomfortable with the term Ebonics simply because it has a negative connotation. Most linguists, African-American English or African-American Vernacular English is considered to be the most unobjectionable.
ReplyDeleteHi Danielle! Interesting explanation about Diglossia (I didn't know the term). I would agree with your argument about diglossia in Brazilian Portuguese, however I don't think the explanation is as straightfoward as lack of literacy. Someone in the comments mentioned the Northeast, which is the poorest and more illiterate region but it's also where people speak most accordingly to the grammar — For example, we don't put an article in front of people's names, which is awfully wrong but very common in the South/Southeast. I'd say one of the reasons for the diglossia is the very grudge that Brazilians have towards Portuguese: a language that was brutally imposed to us, that's old-fashioned, boring, full of complicated rules and it's kind of useless everywhere else. However, most of Brazilians would still agree that is important to master the "norma culta", basically if you do that, that means you're more educated and intelligent than most. It's useful in snub circles such as top universities and certain governmental areas! ;)
ReplyDeleteJonathan,
ReplyDeleteI see your point, since the history of the word "ebonics" is actually "ebony phonics", but I use it because I know that I am not saying it in a pejorative way, and also because I don't see how "African American vernacular English" (what I learned in college) is better. Both imply that you have to be African-American to speak Ebonics, and both suggest that it's genetic. If you've ever been to the Bay Area in California, you'll know that plenty of people speak Ebonics who are not African-American. Until someone can come up with a term that doesn't refer to race, I'm just gonna keep saying ebonics because it's the most common term and if I say "African American vernacular English" know one will know what I'm talking about.
*no one
ReplyDeleteSo interesting, especially the part about the Letras students thinking they're better than everyone (argh. I too get frustrated (and sad!) by students telling me "well I don't even speak Portuguese correctly". Yes, you do, everyone understands you, right?)
ReplyDeleteI think part of the Diglossia is a result of Portuguese from Portugal being changed by local use in Brazil. A lot of the formal Portuguese is what I learnt studying Portuguese in Portugal (Como tu estás?, Ajuda-me, etc).
After two years here I feel that formal Portuguese in the South is only ever used in formal letters and by people who want to show off. The rest uses the vernacular Gaúcho variation: tu fala, me ajuda, etc.. so I don't worry too much about the formal version!
Perhaps studying a Portuguese from Portugal book would provide a thorough basis of the formal grammar, which then helps you pick up the vernacular on a day-to-day basis?
Take Care!
Julie
Nice post and theory Danielle! I understand how you feel frustated, but let me tell you this. The Portuguese you learn from grammar books is so different because it's the Portuguese used in Portugal and also the formal Portuguese taken from novels from the 19th century. Why is that? Because Brazilian linguists are very conservative and they think that the correct Portuguese is the one that came from Portugal. They don't admit that we need a grammar based on the Portuguese spoken by educated people in Brazil(no one speaks like in the grammars, not even educated people). Brazlians don't say "ajude-me", that's how Portuguese people say it, therefore you can find it in grammar and we are obliged to study it even though we dont speak like that. There is a lot of politic issues involved as well. A lot of discrimination and prejudice as a result. You should read this book: http://www.livrariasaraiva.com.br/produto/produto.dll/detalhe?pro_id=427985&ID=BD06E1DD7D905030323201173 It's very interesting!
ReplyDeleteThere is a research project called NURC that has been interviewing educated people (they are mostly people with a university degree) since the 70 in order to create our own grammar.
I will never tell my students that the Portugese they speak is wrong. If I do that I will burn my diploma, because we learned at the university that what is important is communication. And also you need to learn how to communicate in different situations, at a lecture, at a party, at a seminar..that's when the levels of formality come into play.
Oh Gosh..I could go on an on about this topic.
Fabio,
ReplyDeleteI understand your point, but wouldn't it become anarchy if people changed grammar as they pleased to accommodate the way they speak?
What would happen to the Portuguese language for example?
It would probably vanish and be replaced with a Brazilian language and in the future, perhaps, if the same process continued, a Southern Brazilian language and a Northern Brazilian language and so forth...it sounds like a complete mess...
From this point of view I understand the conservatives and the need to have rigid grammar rules and a formal Portuguese as a reference for communication.
Ray
Hi Ray,
ReplyDeleteMaybe I didn't make clear, because this is such a broad topic and there is so much to talk about. Ok,so let's go..Grammar should never come before language, because grammar is the reflexion of a language. You don't have a grammar book if you don't have a language first and in the case of Brazil, we have a big country with language variations. Everywhere you go the language is a little different. In this case we need one type of standard Portuguese that will be used by everybody, everywhere in Brazil. The problem is the our grammar is not based on the Brazilian Portuguese. It's based on European Portuguese. That's not right. The second point is: how has this grammar been taught at schools? Teachers and school still have classic way of teaching, which is by memorization. Why is that? Because that's how people used to do in the past. So students in Brazil memorize lists of adverbs, pronouns etc, but don't know how or when to use it. We should learn formal Portuguese at school and learn how to write letters, essays, give a speech using formal Portuguese, but that doesn't happen. People still think that everybody should speak using all the grammar rules we find in the grammar book. That's not right!! We should use grammar rules to use in formal situations, not in informal situations. But that's not what happens. If a kid comes to school saying "a gente vamos", the teacher will scold him saying that it's wrong and he should never say that again. Instead the teacher should say that it's not appropriate to speak like this in a formal situation, but he could speak like that in his social group (family, friends). If you scold your student saying he doesn't know how to speak his own language, he feels inferior. How can you not speak your own language?
I'm brazillian and in my opinion you are right. Grammar here is very difficult, also for me, a student of Letras.
Delete@fabio: Totally agree with your comments - grammar should be descriptive not prescriptive. Even the grammar taught in Portugal as a foreign language has changed since my parents' day. I only learnt
ReplyDeleteEu falo
Tu falas
Ele fala
Nos falamos
Vocês/Eles falam,
while my parents also had to learn this weird super formal "vocês falais".
Are there any publications out on this new Brazilian grammar? And how are they treating the local dialects (like the gaúcho "tu fala", which although grammatically oh so wrong is oh so widely used!!)?
Julie
Ooh, the comments on this one seem very helpful. Seems like Brazil's best kept secret.
ReplyDeleteHi Macanilha,
ReplyDeleteI guess the Portuguese for Foreigners taught in Brazil doesn't list "vós" as well. It is just like you learned in Portugal.
There is this really nice grammar by Mario A. Perini that shows the contractions found in the normative grammar (yes, our grammar is full of contradited points)and then he gives a new approach that makes a lot more sense. It's worth reading it. http://www.livrariasaraiva.com.br/produto/386406/gramatica-descritiva-do-portugues/?ID=BD54E4797DA03131433270066&PAC_ID=25925
I've also found this one, but never read it: http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Portuguese-Reference-Mario-Perini/dp/0300091559
I still haven't read this one as well, but since it's Perini, I would surely give it a try.
The problem mentioned in this post is why I sometimes have trouble deciding how to teach Brazilian Portuguese to foreigners. There's a low informal and a high informal, plus a low formal and a high formal. Of course, the norm is to know the rules before one can break them but how does one decide which norm to teach?
ReplyDeletePs: I'm two thirds of the way through Marcos Bagno's book "Preconceito linguistico" that Fabio recommended - a great read, he provides loads of examples for exactly what people have been discussing in the comments. Bit of a pity that he wrote the book 10 years ago and his message STILL hasn't got through !!
ReplyDeleteVery well put.
ReplyDeleteI had to go through this same conversation in the beginning too. I grinned all the way through the post and burst out laughing when I read "Brazilians don't know how to speak Portuguese". I can't count the number of times I've heard that!
I love the linguistics point of view :D
ReplyDeleteI've heard the "that's wrong" crap all my life, even from Portuguese teachers... I think it happens beacuse there is no real LINGUISTICS courses on our universities, only LANGUAGE ("letras") ones, which exist solely to mantain a pre-conceived standard.
You see, the guys who make the rules of Portuguese language are REALLY conservative. We've recently had a reform which intended to approach the brazilian and portuguese speeches, instead of recognize their differences. Does that make any sense?
Anyway, really liked your blog :)
Nice thread, I'd like to add some bits on Linguistics courses we have in Brazil. I'm graduating right now and I've read Marcos Bagno in my 2nd semester at university, in sociolinguistics, so I don't really see this "crappy letras universities" picture. The thing is, there is no letras course totally focused on linguistics (or applied linguistics, whatever), they're all forked so people can graduate from it. And you know what? To be a teacher in Brazil you have to graduate from a letras course but NOT from a linguistics one, you don't even need linguistics credits depending on the university's program! That's a shame and that helps to explain the situation with bad teachers and this absurd lack of real language understanding, these are the "teachers" who cry out about Brazilians not speaking proper Portuguese. I assure you we do our best in all linguistics courses to raise the awareness about such things, but it's all politics in the end. You're in trouble when the biggest pop-star "Portuguese specialist" is on TV in a daily-basis calling linguists "idiots", like Pasquale does.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, would have some time to share your comments and thoughts about linguistics courses from American universities? I'm mostly curious about it, we have little to none knowledge about how they're organized, what they teach etc!
--
Caio Begotti
caio1982 AT gmail DOT com
Well, Danny, probably you are not getting in touch with the right teachers. ;) I know some who would be proud to teach you both. Or you can always visit this on-line page. ;)
ReplyDeleteBoa sorte!
Abraços.
Vanda
Well, Danny, probably you are not meeting the right teachers. :) I know some that would be glad to teach you both. Or you can always visit this on-line forum: wordreference.com.
ReplyDeleteBoa sorte!
Abraços,
Vanda
After reading this post, I feel very lucky to have found the Portuguese teacher I have now! The book she teaches from is quite old, but she makes a point of explaining both the informal and formal versions, and when I'm likely to hear/see/use the different versions. She pointed out that the more formal versions are useful to know for reading, especially in official documents. Whichever version the book teaches though, she always gives me the alternate version or explains what I would actually hear when listening to people speak. I'm very glad I didn't have to go through multiple teachers before I found someone that knew what they were talking about!
ReplyDeleteWow! That's a great text from someone from outside Brazil and maybe that kind of teachers who say "that's wrong" about informal situations should read it. Well, it's a big issue here, there is something called Preconceito Linguístico (Linguistic Prejudice?) to people who talk "informally". Well done, I'll share the link.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I understand what you mean, but the point is, why should I go to the University to learn something I can learn inside my house? In Brazilians Universities that's the point, you know the informal form, so you go there to learn the formal, in some situations the formal language is required, is better, is more beatiful than the informal, so people should know how to use both. It's more than just communicate, a kid can communicate. But unfortunally when you are a lawyer you are not going to write in the informal way, you need to know the formal. Not just because in USA things look good, they should look for all the countries. I love Portuguese and think that's one of the most beautiful languages in the world and I'm pretty sure the formal form should be taught in schools.
ReplyDeleteHi Samantha,
DeleteI don't know if I made myself completely clear. I'm not saying that Portuguese isn't beautiful -- I'm saying it's a problem to consider one language or one form of a language more "beautiful" than another. This kind of judgement is called "prescriptive linguistics" and it's contrary to modern, descriptive linguistics.
I'm saying it's a problem that Brazilians can't learn "correct" Portuguese inside their houses. It's a problem that people are native speakers of a language, but that someone with more power in the society determines these people's native version of the language to be "wrong" and another version to be "right". It's very convenient for upper classes in Brazil that access to this formal, theoretical version of Portuguese is difficult, but that knowledge of this version of Portuguese is required to move up in society.
I think it's a little presumptuous of you to say that I'm making this argument simply because the situation in Brazil is different from the situation in the US, and that everything in the US is automatically better. I studied this subject and I have educated opinions about it. I'm not so ignorant that I think everything from my native country is automatically better.
Every language has "formal" and "informal" components/versions. This distinction is useful in social contexts (study the concept of "social register" in sociolinguistics). But it's rare in the world for a formal register of a language to be so drastically different from the informal register that native speakers of the language cannot pick up the formal register in their day-to-day lives or with a basic education. When this happens, it's called diglossia, and it IS considered to be something that makes life more difficult for people in the society.
Which brings me to another point: basic education in this country is so weak that, even if this diglossia situation didn't exist in Brazil, it would probably still be hard for poor Brazilians to acquire a formal register that wasn't that different. I also make the argument in this post that this lack of quality public education is one of the very reasons that diglossia has come to exist in the country.
So I think it's great that you love the variety of your native language; it's important to have pride in your language, your culture, etc -- but it's also important to be sure that you don't pass judgement on something that is essentially arbitrary and that is a social construct that goes against the way humans naturally learn a language.
Very interesting post, and it makes a lot of sense.
ReplyDeleteYou attribute the diglossia to the low literacy rates. Are you talking about those rates in a historical sense? Today there are high (more than 90% literacy) and they were never very low by international standards. I would also compare Brasil with other countries with high illiteracy but no diglossia. If there are plenty I would posit illiteracy does not explain diglossia in Brazi. There must be something else.
Hi there, very interesting topic… for me anyway... @;-)
ReplyDeleteI´m not a linguist or anything, but I´m Brazilian, my wife is Swiss and we live in Switzerland. My point: If you want to see REAL diglossia, come to the German speaking areas of Switzerland. It´s mad… serious. Everything (papers, tv, magazines, ads, goods, you name it...) is in Standard German. Even so, NOBODY actually speaks it in everyday life situations. They speak the Swiss German dialect. Or should I say “dialects”, because simple words like “I” or “no” can change wildly from one Canton to another. And it´s a freaking different language from Standard German really. They have loads of different words, different sentence constructions… they even have difference tenses. From my point of view, it´s like Portuguese and Italian. Most Germans can´t understand it. An exemple:
ENGLISH: I was walking on the street and I found a newspaper
GERMAN: Ich ging auf der strasse und fand eine Zeitung
SWISS GERMAN: I bi uf dr strass gloffe u hane tsitig gfunge.
FORMAL PORTUGUESE: Eu estava andando na rua e encontrei um jornal.
INFORMAL VERNACULAR PORTUGUESE: Eu ´tava andando na rua e encontrei um jornal.
So, when I see people arguing that there is diglossia in my native Brazilian Portuguese… It just seems they trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. There is really absolutely NO way you can compare it to Swiss German or Arabic. In day-by-day situations Brazilians (specially less educated ones, it´s true) tend to lean towards a more “easy” or “simple” form of Portuguese, and maybe “swallow” some syllables like I did in the given example above, or make grammatical mistakes. But, come on… Isn´t pretty much THE WHOLE WORD like that… Even Americans or British don´t write essays or school papers, or even magazine/newspaper articles the same way they speak at home or in the streets. I´ve lived in Washington DC for an year and I can tell you americans – like everybody else – do a lot of grammatical mistakes when they speak. Definitely less then Brazilians, but still a lot.
I mean, EVERYWHERE there is a more colloquial way to speak to your family or pals, and a more formal way to write or speak depending on the situation. Perhaps in Brazil this dichotomy is a little bit more noticeable. But, to call it diglossia, is to push it a bit too much for me. I´ve lived in Spain and Belgium, and I gotta tell you… up there… well, it´s the SAME THING as in Brazil. I´ve learned tons of Spanish grammar and French grammar that are just useless in day-by-day situations. People would tell me: “you sound like Lord, my dear”. Of course, even though I was right, people just don´t speak like that, you know. But when I was reading magazines or papers, the rules I had studied were all there… It´s part of the language phenomena.
So, though I disagree with you and many scholars about the existence of diglossia in Brazilian Portuguese, I think that´s really, really, cool you came to Brazil. Intercultural exchanges are a wonderful way to expand your conscience and enrich your life experience. I Hope you already found a good diglossic @;-) Brazilian teacher and, if not, just go ahead and enjoy a caipirinha on the beach, I´m sure your Portuguese will come up much easier… @;-)
^ wth? how many languages does this guy speak?
ReplyDeleteANYWAYS, just wanted to tell you that i've been reading random posts on your blog (only because i will be traveling to brazil soon and i want to teach english abroad, but those two things actually aren't related - ha!) and loved them. i especially loved "subjunctives are the devil." as someone who's learned spanish and is now trying to learn portuguese, i must say...
yes. yes, it is.
that is all.
Maravilhoso texto, excelente proposição teórica, muito boa explanação sobre o termo Diglossia mas, em meu parco conhecimento, como nativa do Brasil e professora de Português, ouso dizer que no Brasil há muitas variações linguística e dialetos, mas não há diglossia.
ReplyDelete