There are 2 Portuguese expressions that really confused me and took me a long time to figure out. Both of these expressions use negative words in a positive way, which was so counterintuitive for my poor little English/Spanish-speaking brain when it was not also a Portuguese-speaking brain.
1. Pois não? = Can I help you?
WTF?! The first time I heard this, I was so confused that it just destroyed the conversation. Relying on my Spanish skills (pois sounds like pues) and English intonation (Portuguese questions sound like affirmative English statements), I originally interpreted pois não? as "well, no." I was on the phone with a bookstore, and the conversation was like this (or at least this was how I understood it):
Bookstore clerk: Good morning, ABC Bookstore.
Me: Hello, I'm looking for a book.
Bookstore clerk: Ok. Well, no.
Me: Umm... No?
Bookstore clerk: Excuse me?
Me: Um... I'm sorry, can you help me find a book?
Bookstore clerk (irritated and confused): What book is it, ma'am?
...etc etc
I ended the conversation thinking, "either that clerk was totally rude, or there was some miscommunication going on there."
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Later, when my Portuguese was a little better, I figured out that pois is like "because", but...it still didn't make sense: "because no." or even "because no?" Huh?
Then Alexandre and I were at the corn festival, and we went up to the little booth to buy our food tickets. And the guy working at the booth said, Pois não? But he was smiling so politely! Alexandre responded to him with "We'd like some food tickets, please", and their exchange was totally friendly and cordial.
After we walked away from the booth, I asked Alexandre, "WHAT the hell does pois não mean?!"
"It's like 'Can I help you?'," he said.
"Well that doesn't make any goddamn sense!" I responded indignantly. "Is there some history of that expression? Was it longer or something?"
"I don't know", was his response, which is usually his response when it comes to grammar-related topics.
Yes. So now when I hear pois não? I just have to ignore the little instinctive voice in my head that's shouting about how strange the question is.
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2. que nem.... = just like...
This expression que nem shows up in a sentence like "He gives presents to lots of children on Christmas, just like Santa!"
But nem is a function word for negation that has a few different translations into English. Usually it means "not even" or "not...or" (like in the statements, "I was so tired last night that I didn't even eat dinner" or "I don't eat chicken or fish".) (Most of my students incorrectly learn nem as "neither", which is rare, and then use "neither" way too much. But that's another issue.)
Anyway, if you think of nem as a negative word, it's totally confusing to use it for "just like", which shows that 2 things are equal. At first, I understood it as "nothing like", but then my conversations got all messed up. Like this one, with Alexandre:
Me: That girl is totally spoiled and obnoxious.
Alexandre: Yeah, que nem minha irmã (just like my sister). (I understood "Nothing like my sister").
Me: What? No, she's the same as your sister.
Alexandre: Huh? I know.
Me: What??
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So that phrase is really against the grain for me, too. I mean, did it start out as something else? Or is it sarcastic?
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Ahh..... the perils of teaching yourself a language. You don't always get it right.
Has anyone else been confused by these expressions, or by another expression that you've learned in a foreign language?
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Pois não has become an inside joke with my other english speaking friends. If I feel like making them laugh, whenever I see them instead of greeting them with, "Oi, tudo bem?", I'll make this really excited and expectant look on my face, like I'm ready so excited and ready to help them and then I'll say, "Pois não?". It really is funny, but just to us.
ReplyDeleteNem is another one that drives me insane, I'm still trying to use it when it doesn't mean 'neither' (and I'm one of those that's guilty of just saying 'neither' or 'nor' a lot). I had no idea 'que nem' was a comparison for similarity and I really don't understand how that works.
Pois Não?
When my friends in the US ask me what Portuguese is like, I usually start by saying something like "Well, Portuguese has more present tense forms than English." Then I spit out all that higher-to-lower dimension projection BS...
ReplyDeleteAnyways, Portuguese has lots of rules. And the more rules you've got, the more exceptions you've gotta learn. It's like reactive electric power. You've gotta live with it.
Pois não is shortening for a question of surprise. It's better to understand with an exemple.
ReplyDelete- Por favor, 2 ingressos.
- Claro, pois (eu) não deveria te vender?
So it's like "of course I'll sell you 2 tickets! why should I not?". Remember that "why" (por que) and "because" (porque) are almost the same words in portuguese, so "pois" question and "pois" answer are the same too.
Hope I helped :)
Thank you, Bruno!! See? That makes sense now. Alone, it makes no sense.
ReplyDeleteI was initially confused with "Sei la" as a repsonse that means "I don't know". It'd make sense if said in a sarcastic way, but that doesn't seem to come across.
ReplyDeleteDanielle, as a linguist you should know that you don't need to understand literally what every sentence means. There are many sentences and expressions in Eglish taht doesnt make sentence. You just dont notice them because you grew up hearing them. My friend who doesnt speak English very asks me what certain expression or sentence in English mean in Portuguese. When I tell him, he gets the same reaction as you: That doesn't make sense at all. I don't question why is it like this or that..just learn when to use it and that's it.
ReplyDeleteDanielle,
ReplyDeletethere is a nice explanation here:
http://www.transparent.com/portuguese/the-expression-%E2%80%9Cpois-nao%E2%80%9D-and-its-origin/
Hi Fabiano,
ReplyDeleteAs a linguist, I think the opposite-- that every expression and grammatical feature DOES make sense and DOES have an explanation. The literal translation may not make sense, but the given structure can make sense within the confines of the language.
But pois não and que nem confused me because they were going against general rules of language (using negation to show affirmation or equality), not just because they didn't translate easily into English.
It seems like most of the expressions that don't make sense today have some historical or grammatical explanation (like the helpful explanations people have put here for "pois não"). The same is true for English expressions that don't seem to make sense at first glance.
So I agree with you that it's important to be open minded and to accept differences in a language, and that's something we even have to say to our students sometimes: "just use it!". But for people like us, who have a better understanding of how language works, it's nice to have the technical explanation, too.
I certainly wasn't trying to say anything bad about Portuguese-- more about myself! That's why I described these phrases as "counterintuitive" and "confusing" as opposed to "wrong".
I actually do notice English expressions that are strange, because that's my job. I just also usually know the reasons behind a seemingly "incorrect" expression or grammar. For example, it's logical that my students get confused with negation in English, because English is one of the few languages that doesn't accept double negation.
I feel like you were irritated or offended by my post-- I hope not!! I hope this answer clarified what I wanted to say.
Although I'm not a linguist, history of words and expressions really interests me since I came across this book years ago -- not the usual etymology book for researchers. I promise I will post its title as soon as I remember. I never thought about the "pois não" expression, and I think Bruno's explanation does make sense. Thanks for your $.02. Just for curiosity, I think Danielle would be interested in researching the origins of the words "obrigado" and "você" (if you haven't yet, of course), which used to be part of expressions in ancient Portuguese.
ReplyDeleteI'm not irritated or offended. I'm just tired of hearing the same things on both sides. Brazilian complaining about English and Americans (or any other foreigner) complaining about Portuguese. Those expressions you mention do have an explanation, but some are so old that most people don't know when or how it started.
ReplyDeleteDanielle, I remember an expression in English that got me all confused: I was gonna say. I was having this conversation with my friend about Britney Spears. I told her that she used to be nicer in her teens and she can sing better than the way she generally does in her songs and my friend understood that I liked her, and she hates Britney Spears. So I had to explain her that I don't like her songs or her attitude, but I thought she was very nice in the interview I saw back when she was 17. So my friend said: I was gonna say. I waited for her to complete the sentence. But she didn't do it, so I asked: You were gonna say what? Then she explained that it's an expression and explained me what it meant. But honestly, I still don't use it because it doesn't make much sense to me. It still didn't get into my head what it means.
ReplyDeleteSorry for another comment Danielle. I just saw Troy's comment and it reminded me of another expression in English that sounds weird: "it beats me" meaning "I don't know".
ReplyDeleteHow about pois e? That one made no sense to me either... I just figured out it's when you want to say 'that's true' but have no other information to add. Haha, silly silly languages!
ReplyDeleteCan't help it, you know I love these kinds of entries!
ReplyDelete