Monday, July 2, 2012

Teaching English or Teaching Logic?

I'm so close to my Pantanal vacation, I can taste it! As you can imagine, this last week of work is especially hard to get through because I just want to be out with Bianca and the birdies already.

I've been feeling extra frustrated with teaching lately (note need for said vacation). I've been feeling like I am not successful in teaching in many of my classes because all of the teaching methods I've learned (and learned from) don't seem to work.

Why don't they work? I think a lot of my students lack basic critical thinking, logic, and deduction abilities. Really. The ways I've learned how to teach are all essentially based on logical deduction. I don't know how to TEACH people how to deduce things. I just know how to use deduction to teach them English.

Example:

Student says:
"The mother of his" or "the mother of him" or "the mother of he" or something wrong like that.

This is a literal translation of a mãe dele (the student is trying to say "his mother"). So far, no problem. This is a common mistake for a very basic student to make (most of them still make it, even after I've shown them a list of my/your/his/her/our/their and told them that ALL these words go first in English, not just some of them). 

So I say (IN PORTUGUESE):
OK, so remember that we put all these words first in English. You know how in Portuguese, you can say minha mãe? How do we say that in English?

Student says:
"My mother."

I say:
Right. You said "my" first. So we use minha and sua at the beginning in English, too, but we use dele and dela at the beginning. All these words go first.

Then I write:
My mother
Your mother
His mother
Her mother
Their mother

I use lots of board support. 

Then I say:
See? All the words are first, before "mother." In Portuguese, you can put them before or after.  Also, there's no "the" in English in this situation. 


I write "the mother of his" like they said. I put a big X through "the" and another one through "of." I put an arrow to move "his."

Sometimes I say:
You know how in formal Portuguese you can say seu pai instead of o pai dele? See how you change the word order? You need to change the word order in English, too.

Student says:
OK.

Then I say:
So which one is a mãe dele from this list?

Student says:
His mother.

I say:
Right, great. OK. What if I want to say, o pai dele?

For those reading who don't speak Portuguese, the correct answer is "his father". This is where the logical deduction part comes in, so you may have figured that out yourself. 

Student says:
The father his.

And then I take deep breaths and try not to bang my head against the table.
This kind of stuff happens in so many situations when I try to get the students to learn something by making a logical conclusion or using critical thinking. THEY CAN'T DO IT. You'll notice that I've long given up on any kind of technical explanations, like "noun" or "verb" or dare I say "possessive adjective". I don't expect people to know those kinds of technical explanations THAT well, but if you're studying a foreign language, you need to at least know the basics of the basic of how to recognize grammar in your native language (like recognizing a noun or a verb in a sentence).

The same thing happens with more advanced students who are required to think critically. I give them modified newspaper articles to read about interesting topics (for example, one guy's opinion on when and why you should give allowance to children). I make the English appropriate for their level. I write discussion questions that include reading comprehension and opinion questions (so in this case, something like "in what 3 situations does the author think you should give allowance to children?" and then "do you agree with the author's opinion? When do you think children should receive an allowance?"). 

I would say that a good 80% of my students seriously just copy random sentences from the article as their answers. This is apparently acceptable in the Brazilian education system. Paraphrasing and summarizing don't seem to be taught or valued. And when it comes to arguing for a logical opinion? Forget it. Again, students just copy the author's opinion, or write something very general like "it's good" or "it's bad." Many even just write "I don't know."

I don't think it's a lack of English abilities, because (a) I am careful to give level-appropriate work and (b) the students who DO possess critical thinking skills will try to write something out, even if it has mistakes.

So I'm frustrated because I don't know how to teach logical reasoning / critical thinking / independent thinking. These are necessary skills, not only for learning a language, but for LIFE. I feel like I learned these skills almost completely by reading a lot, and also from my math teachers who made me do proofs and lots of logical deduction activities. (Plus, I guess it's just engrained in the American teaching system-- rather than, ya know, copying and parroting shit back.)

I've tried to research things. Everything I find is for second - fourth graders. I have one student who has asked me to help her at this level of language learning, because she's having a really, really hard time with understanding very basic English. I gave her an activity with a basic text about making pizza at home vs. buying pizza in the store. There were a handful of words I knew she wouldn't know. She had to deduce the meaning. I gave her a list of questions she can ask herself, like "does the word seem positive or negative?" "do you see an opposite word or a synonym somewhere else in the text?" "What information is missing when you translate this sentence in your mind?" "Imagine yourself in this situation. What would you do? How would you feel?" We did a couple together and then she had to finish as homework. She didn't even bother guessing the meanings because she said the activity was too hard and she didn't know the answers to the questions.


Here's an example from the text (she already learned the word "crust" with me):


After you have chosen your crust, you must then add the sauce. Making your own sauce from scratch can take a long time. You have to buy tomatoes, peel them, and then cook them with spices. If this sounds like too much work, you can also buy jarred sauce from the store. 

The only thing she figured out was jarred, because it looks like the Portuguese word for jar, which is jarra. She couldn't figure out "from scratch" or "peel" from the context. I know there's no perfect word for "from scratch" in Portuguese, but she could have figured out "at home" or something, anything like "not buying it at the store." I mean, students need to be able to be flexible without word-for-word translations.

So I'm just at a loss. I don't know how to teach things that I thought educated adults just knew how to do instinctively. I'm teaching the top 5% of this country in terms of income and education, and this is what I get. I don't like to just give up on students, especially if they're really trying hard  and are really motivated and all that. But I kind of feel like this is beyond my ability.

Have you guys had students like these? What do you do? Just give up and let them talk about soccer and beer and their friends and hobbies in incorrect English and just leave it at that? I don't want to be that kind of a teacher.

53 comments:

  1. FYI, "from scratch" = do zero, literally "out of zero".

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    1. Uh...thank you! Seriously need this!!! Like every week.

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  2. Thank you! Does the expression work for making food, too?

    I usually find a way to use the word "caseiro" when I'm thinking "from scratch." But I'll try that, too.

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  3. I'm shocked, but not surprised. Being Brazilian, I feel embarrassed. But what can I expect from our education system, which is a fucking joke?

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  4. "Do zero" would be slightly awkward in this context (at least to me), but it works. I can't think of any better translation myself.

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  5. Danielle, how do you cope? I would either kill myself (or the students, most probably).

    I really hope you're wrong about them being the top 5%, otherwise the future is really bleak. I would never be able to be a teacher; I simply have too little tolerance for stupidity.

    I really wish you the best of luck. Being in a different country it's not easy by itself, and dealing with this sort of unfulfilling day-to-day situations must be really tough on you.

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  6. Leonardo,
    I do have lots of smart students, but these two problems are trends that I face a lot, even with intelligent people. They seem to be very good at their jobs but really bad at these two things. I don't think they're stupid people (ok, one or two of them are), I just think these abilities (paraphrasing/summarizing ideas and making deductions) are not taught well in Brazilian schools.

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  7. Richard Feynman on education in Brazil, several decades ago:

    http://v.cx/2010/04/feynman-brazil-education

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  8. I lived in Brazil for many years, and that's not surprising at all. I would love to render a highly positive and constructive comment, but the best thing I can think of is that you're fortune to be working with the top 5% students. I see you're passionate about your work, so your students are even more fortunate to have you as their teacher, but I'm afraid that as long as you want to live and teach in Brazil, logic comes first and English second.

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  9. Oh Danielle, I feel your pain. I don't teach English but I am a tutor of Stats and it is so hard. What if these students read "a friend of mine"? They will go crazy... "My teacher said we can't use 'of' before possessive, this is wrong!"

    Your post reminded me something I've read about kinds of students. There is the curriculum-dependent learner and the other kind that will learn way more than what is taught, because they link things (e.g. Maths to something in Biology) and they THINK! Amazing. They also find applications in what is taught without the teacher stating any of them. As soon as I find the reference I will send it to you, I am just too tired today. I am another girl after reading that article, for real. It explained so many things to me in a few sentences. I learned that some people are not exactly stupid, it is just the way the learn.

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  10. This is the very thing that makes me worried about raising children here. The expectations are SO low for education. The school day is short, and then the curriculum is just lacking. And the way that the 5% deals with it is by sending their kids to Kumon, private English classes, tutoring, extra classes. I think if enough Brazilians really wanted change, things could be different. But so either don't believe that they could make a difference or that it's all that bad...

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  11. In short, the problem is simply cultural. Brazilians do think that “studying“ and “memorizing“ is the same - how disgraceful! It has been like this forever, and I must say that I have no hope that it will change any time soon. I’m convinced by now that going in deep understanding of the local culture is the only way to avoid frustrations and discouragement that comes with it. Danielle, little by little you’re turning into a (much needed) Brazilian cultural expert, because more important than translating words is translating a whole culture. I’m sure that eventually you’ll put all your knowledge on Brazilian culture to a good use. Força, minha querida! Have a wonderful Pantanal experience! I can’t wait to see the beautiful pictures of the colorful birds you’re going to see in that part of the country were Avian diversity and abundance are magically combined.

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    1. "Brazilians do think that studying AND memorizing is the same" Oops, I meant ARE the same. My Portuguese is always in the way, Danielle >_<

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  12. See, already said on I think on FB, and I completely agree with Shelley too.
    I still insist on using the words "verb, and noun, and possessive" and whatever grammar structure I'm teaching because in my mind they need to know that. If I learned it and I went to the same public schools they did, they should know it too.

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    1. I agree with Samia on this one too - I use the names of grammar structures because if there's one thing I notice about Brazilians, it's that they tend to know all the names of structures! Way more than I ever did or ever learned in school... (because I don't think I learned any in school) But they do like to learn English that way, I've found... so they can compartmentalize at least.

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  13. I get this a lot when I'm teaching too. Especially when opinion questions come up. I used to think it was shyness in a group etc. But I think critical faculties aren't exercised in the majority of schools. Sometimes I have to go right back to the start and build from there. They all love god.

    What's your opinion on God? He's good.
    What do you think of Satan? He's bad.

    Do you prefer hot or cold weather? I don't know. (ventures hot as a stab in the dark, not really knowing if that is the answer).

    Do you think old people should be killed when they reach 65 as they are just a burden on the state? I don't know.

    Ad nauseum.

    Do y

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  14. That's really sad to read that. I mean, I think you are right about being frustated with teaching English, but being Brazilian myself and studying in public schools in Brazil my whole life what I notice is that the problem is laziness! They are just lazy to think. Most of them have the idea that learning languages is not that important OR seems to be possible, it is cultural! I have been living in Europe for almost 4 years now, took me several years studying English in Brazil, I thought about giving up learning (I am Brazilian, right?), I am glad I did not, because nowadays I can speak quite some Danish and a good level o Dutch as well. From what I've heard here in The Netherlands there are loads of companies with business in Brazil facing problems trying to use English to communicate with the Brazilian offices: they simple do not speak English, even some high-level managers! Do you think they also lake of logic al or deduction abilities? I don't think so, but they are just lazy as your students.

    I know Brazil has quite some issues with the education system but I make my personal statement: cultural laziness, specially towards to languages.

    xx

    cheers!

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  15. Everyone agrees that the education standard in Brazil has a lot to improve but are you sure you are teaching the top 5%? Maybe in income but not in education? They wouldn't finish a good private secondary school or get into a top university in Brazil lacking that kind of skill. In fact, they would probably already have reasonable English skills if they were in the top 5%.

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  16. Really, the top 5% do StILL have issues with English. I have seen terrible students and awesome student display English skills that you really have to search hard to find evidence that they are NOT native. Usually this shows up in the writing more the speaking at this Advanced level. Lots of students like this typically love American or British shows, music, movies, VIDEO GAMES, and books. Let's not forget those who love computers. But all these students do deduction and logic well. In the situation of terrible/awesome students that usually lies with being lazy. But they love English! And they are willing to flush out the Portuguese. And they teach themselves. A biggie.

    Did you ever think that may be the issue? They won't let go of Portuguese? That in their hearts they truly don't like English? But are forced to study due to work/school or family pressure. Also, with a combination that they hate learning??????

    The top 5% of this country are not expected to understand English well. Have you seen the vestibular English section? It's not English English. And many masters you don't need to take an English exam. If you made it past your master without English, you can definitely get your Ph.D without it.

    And at the top University in my area you can have a degree in Portuguese that qualifies you to teach English. You look at other successful language programs in the globe, they include native teachers. I tried to do a concurso at Unicamp and they wouldn't even let me sign up. I have a B.A. in letters and Science and four years teaching experience, three of which are English. They said I was way too under qualified to even sign up.

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  17. I think its lack of motivation or maybe laziness or both. They don't see that learning English will add some value to their life. I meet people and they say they want very much to learn English and I ask them Why? and from their answers What i find is that they are not clear. They dont have a target to learn like in a month or a year etc. Wait a second... I am Zohaib from Pakistan (married to a Brazilian :D) and now moved here recently. I am living in a small town Vilhena-Rondonia. My observations are little different. I met some guys who just studied some months or a semester in English long ago and now doing jobs and they speak English very well (with grammar and pronunciation mistakes but its ok...you can still understand what they want to say). The problem is when we are learning a language in a very organised way like Grammar etc it feels very boring. I am from Pakistan and English is not our first language but still it is LOL. Mothers teach their kids from start poems like "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" or "Baba Black Sheep". But i remember the days when i used to memorise the tenses like "Future Perfect Tense" etc and I hated that. English was not my language but still I learned it like a first language because schools in Pakistan start teaching both URDU and ENGLISH right from start. I learned mostly with watching movies and listening english songs and the same I tell to my students (i have just started with some students). I call it "Practical English" and I tell them don't worry about rules , dont worry about American or British english, just open up, just speak. People here I think are shy to speak and too much worried about the right pronunciation. I tell them, you are doing good until I can understand you.
    When we teach people by rules, every time we give them a task...they go back to the rule to see if they are right or not and this makes so much load on brain. The same goes with any language. I am trying to learn Portuguese these days and again the rules I hate, I just memorise ready made sentences and put them in my daily life situations. I Listen to Brazilian songs and watch the same English movies I watched before with Portuguese Subtitles.
    Being a teacher ...of any subject ...requires a lot of patience and specially when you are a person who is very sincere and want to be as much organised/professional etc. When situations like this happen, just take a deep breath or count to 10 :).

    Take Care and Good Luck for your Vacations.
    Zohaib

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    1. MY NEIGHBOR!!!!!!!! I'm in Buritis, Rondonina. Sort of close to Ariquemes, about 4 hours from Porto Velho.

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  18. "Why don't they work? I think a lot of my students lack basic critical thinking, logic, and deduction
    abilities. "

    That made me LMAO----------your too funny!

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  19. I wish I was going to be living near you when I move to Brazil-----I would hire you to teach me Portuguese. :(

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  20. You know, I can understand when a foreigner express frustration when dealing with a different culture, but I really have a hard time trying to understand Brazilians that take a noticeable (morbid) pleasure not only in (enthusiastically) agreeing with virtually (all) the crap that is said about their own country/culture, but also in adding (very) negative remarks of their own to the caustic soup. Maybe it’s just another Brazilian cultural characteristic that I wasn't aware of until recently. Could it be an inferiority complex or some very personal unresolved issues behind such persistent rantings (like not being able to get their "Green Card", for example)? Funny thing that even dogs never crap in the place where they sleep and eat, (some) Brazilians should learn about having some dignity with the dogs.

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    1. Really I find that Brazilians can't take anything said about their culture--almost to a fault. I believe admitting something is wrong or doesn't work is the first step to actually fixing it. Which is how a lot of thing have gotten done in the US. all the citizens do here is criticize and scream for change which is why laws are always being passed. In Brazil they seem to be in denial about what is wrong. They seem to have too much pride and get really offended when you say anything critical.

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    2. I don't know, guys... I think it's like your family. You can talk shit about them, but tou get offended if someone else does, even if thar person is right.

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    3. But you two are saying opposite things. I don't see why Brazilians shouldn't complain, Gil!

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    4. Gil,

      I'm Brazilian. I'm proud of many aspects of my country. There are wonderful things about Brazil that I love, but I have every right to complain about what's wrong and so much is wrong. I'm sorry if you think I should believe everything's great and never open my mouth to talk shit about Brazil and shit happens all the time.

      I'm a teacher, coming from a family of teachers, and our education system is extremely faulty and it bothers me to no end. Should I just shut my mouth and be okay with the fact the my mother, who's been a teacher for 25+ years, only earns a monthly salary of a little over 2000 reais? Should I remain quiet when she doesn't have the minimum necessary to do her work as it should be done? Should I accept that parents don't given a f*ck about their children's education and blame teachers after their children fail later on in life when they'd rather buy their children fancy clothes than a book?

      There's so much wrong with this country, and I'm talking about education alone here, that I really don't feel like I should just sit here and watch and not say anything just because I'm Brazilian and have to be proud of this mess.

      Soccer is great, world cups are awesome, carnaval is fun... but is it all there's really? Because I see people getting excited and being so involved in these things when there's a huge lack of commitment in other, much more important matters, such as education, infrastructure, government spending, health care, and so on. I have a really hard time understanding how Brazilians don't see it, or more likely choose not to.

      I don't know where you live, but try crossing a street in a big city and almost being killed because people don't respect stop signs. Try living behind bars when criminals should be the ones behind them. Try avoiding going out after 8pm because you could be robbed or, worse, killed. Or, as happened to me just a few days ago, try seeking urgent medical assistance and having to wait 48 hours sitting a wheelchair in a hospital hallway.

      I'm pretty sure talking alone will not get us far, but shutting our mouths and turning a blind eye towards what's happening will get us nowhere. The only cultural characteristics I see here are Brazilians pretending their country is great and getting ridiculously offended when someone points out its flaws.

      Maybe foreigners shouldn't have to be the ones to complain. It's our, Brazilians, job to complain, to be on top of it, to point out and seek a solution for everything that's wrong. It's just hypocritical, not to mention stupid, to say we should not.

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    5. It's true that admitting faults is the first step to getting things fixed.

      I do think, however, that negativity is easily spread, and I've seen this random 'Brazil hatred' spread 'cada vez mais.' It's really, really weird.

      The thing that I don't understand here is that many people seem to love to complain, but don't do a thing about it. I'd rather roll with the punches and have someone be 'stupid' or 'mal educado' and happy than be badly educated and pissy all the time.

      Although I may be wrong, I think what Gil may be trying to say is that it doesn't make sense that Brazilians, born and raised there, are taking complaints from a foreigner and almost internalizing them and making them their own feelings, as well as adding to them. Of course, I'm not saying a foreigner's opinion doesn't count, but usually when an immigrant is frustrated with their adopted country, the locals will tell the immigrant that they can leave if they don't like it, rather then commiserate with them and tell them how much they hate Brazil too.

      Of course, complaining is a human quality so I don't want to sound like I'm dissing anyone here, but this is just my personal idea and something that's actually been bothering me quite a bit lately.

      Abraços

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    6. Oh, and just so you all know, there is a new law going to be passed that will spend 10% of the Brazilian PIB in schooling in the coming years. These problems you are all talking about may be with numbered days.

      Abraços

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    7. Oi, Alê.
      No, you’re NOT wrong, that’s EXACTLY what I meant, THANK YOU! I’m happy that we agree on this
      Abração.

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    8. How can you not be negative when people choose soccer and carnaval over education? When hospitals are completely abandoned? When there's so much money being invested in stadiums for a world cup that will last a month? When the TV advertises #VamosJogarBola insted of #VamosEstudar every 30 minutes

      Brazilians are 'cada vez mais' selfish. It goes like this: my soccer team won the Libertadores? Nothing else matters. Let's drink to that, get in our car and run over people.

      Danielle and I have the same job. It's just logical that we'd have similar problems/complaints. Not saying that the comment was geared toward me. I'm not that self-absorbed, I think.

      The thing is, it's easy to see all the positive about a place when you don't live in said place.

      Alex, I so hope you're right about this new law, that it passes, and that when it passes it's taken seriously. When you do move to Brazil, you're invited to my hometown, and I'll show you the schools around here and what students have to go through to get to these schools. ;) Hopefully by then, you'll see all the wonders the 10% of the PIB will have done to them because right now it's just sad.

      And btw, any foreigner living in Brazil knows that they'll be frowned upon and told to go home if they say anything bad about Brazil, even if it's true. ;)

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  21. Hi Danielle! I feel your pain! I had a group of students who after a looooong prepping time (vocabulary, ideas, example phrases) were still unable to write short "postcard from holiday"...argh!
    In my experience I think students (despite being intelligent, working, etc) have no idea what learning a different languages means, because they have had no exposure to foreigners PLUS the school system has taught them language learning = memorizing grammar.
    Just an idea, but I found a good antidote is to go completely the other way: absolutely no grammar, no explanations (I know this must go totally against your linguist/love grammar grain, but I noticed thatat the very least it gets students motivated, as it sounds different to what they usually do). I'm sure you've heard of TPR and the lexical approach? I've also found limited drills to be useful to drum in some of the basic concepts, often repeated each class for a few weeks.
    Nevertheless - with some students it felt like the only solution was a rant and a glass of wine in the evening ;) Good Luck!

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    1. I like to weave some TPR in, and WAYK takes it and matches it with gestures- I've used that with some success. Add in a little Berlitz techniques, some deductive reasoning, and teach a little grammar, along with the receptive skills- IMO opinion it has to be that way, hitting all the so-called 'intelligences' described by Howard Gardener.

      But I bet after your vacay, this won't even matter so much!!!

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  22. Lack of reading, listening, very limited exposure to English and lazyness are the big issues here.
    The real learner is the one that finds pleasure while studying and usually has a passion behind it - music, games, chatting, travelling etc.

    What should you do? Just get less annoyed by these students and their limitations. Relax, do you know why? You might not still be able to realise, but I bet they cannot speak or write flawlessly even portuguese. You cannot save them from themselves.

    Have a nice holiday.
    Paula

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  23. Danielle, I see that the way I expressed myself made you believe that I think Brazilians shouldn’t complain about their own country. That’s not what I intended to say at all, it’s totally the other way around. I do believe that Brazilians should complain, that’s one of the things Brazilians do best anyway. I just think it’s pointless complaining for the sake of complaining, not to mention it’s quite tiresome to hear repeatedly someone doing this to the point you start to think there must be something really wrong with the person. Sure everybody is entitled to complain, foreigners and Brazilians alike, but what about some balance and sanity there? You know, certain Brazilians should get some inspiration in these Margaret Thatcher’s wise words: “Watch your thoughts, for they become words.Watch your words, for they become actions. Watch your actions, for they become habits. Watch your habits, for they become your character. And watch your character, for it becomes your destiny. What we think, WE BECOME“.

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  24. I taught English for 12 years in Brazil, at "rich schools" - the 5% you mentioned. Rich kids or teenagers tend to be lazy - but as I also lived many years in other parts of the globe (12 years in Germany, 4 in the UK), I don't think it's because of a cultural difference. Even adults in Europe were that way - a difficulty when thinking of nouns and verbs and they said "oh, I can't figure it out", meaning "I don't want to", it was clear.
    I've read many people here saying the education in Brazil has problems. It does, of course, but don't just assume that education in Europe is fabulous, because it is far from that. I have awards as a teacher, so I'm also passionate for my profession - it means, no, I don't give up.
    When going deeper, you can see that as a matter of fact it's a sign of logical thinking when a student says "the mother of his". He/she uses his grammar skills - learned in Portuguese, to another language. It takes around 15 hours to figure out differences in languages (scientifically studied). And there are also other factors, like skills.
    Some students will be great in English. Some will be good. Some will be interested. Some will not. Or History. Or Chemistry. Not necessarily English.
    Good luck! You are doing a great job, I liked your method!

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    1. should we discuss American education to be fair? Because there are so many issues too. It is global, really. I have seen people who unfortunately have learning disorders here in Brazil work so hard and try so hard and just not get it. The same in the US when I tutored. Then students SO freaking smart throwing their talent away, also in the US and Brazil.

      Hell, in New Orleans some schools didn't have materials, literally I know for a fact stole money for projects by mounting faulty projects or overcharging (the people in charge of these projects happened to be friends). Schools in New Orleans where the Food program required to give 75% of the students free lunch and breakfast, didn't freaking have food. Then on top of it, when I did file complaints my clients on my case load suffered abuse and were denied resources. I was literally blacklisted.

      So yeah, it's bad all over. I think we are just in a really low standard for education (AND high corruption) and the US as a considered "industrial nation" whom has a terrible statical pattern for educational outcomes. Such as high drop out rates, or people not knowing where certain countries are located on a map. GOD, shall I invoke her, SARAH PALIN.

      But that doesn't mean that certain patterns don't arise in Brazil. I think Danielle, was just pointing what she noticed for both help and reasonings to why this is going on. Really how can we move on without a discussion. My only weirdness is that we are all foreigners, the Brazilians here are probably really far cry from the situation. I think it would be better if we could include day to day Brazilians. I just don't know how.

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    2. I agree with you, Nina. It's bad all around. About education in the US, I have two things to point out as crap, which are the ones I got to experience: Chicago Public Schools and City Colleges. BAAAAAAAD!!! But I am in Brazil now, so I'll stick to saying bad things about Brazil only, for now. hahahaha

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  25. I feel this way with my students (regular ol' kids) sometimes. Like, we will read, "Suzy went to the store." And then I will ask, "What do you think Suzy is going to do there?" "Um, take a nap?" Grr.

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  26. I'm pretty sure the school system California and here is about the same from what I have seen.

    This might surprise you, but I have yet to find a class that does not know 'possessive adjective' and 'possessive noun'. I can say for certain that each person knows, but in my classes with teens and classes with adults, they've all heard of this in Portuguese. I tell them they have to memorize the grammar as it might not be used exactly the same.

    I have noticed that Brazilians- very similar to Turks, actually- love to copy things off the board. I never had that with Mexican students. or Russian students who acted like they were too good to do anything the teacher asked. I always had to be haughty with them to get their respect. Stark contrast to my Chinese students, who, when I called on them, would jump to their feet to answer my question! Ah, I miss that diversity sometimes, but I must admit a mono-lingual classroom is easier to explain certain things, but takes longer for the students to learn.

    But seriously- I think the problem is in the materials for these particular students. At the level you are talking about, the students have to have more controlled practice (for example, a choice between 'his mother' and 'the mother of his' only.) It's super simple for those than can think logically, but error-proof for those that ned the extra help.

    This kind of control can be necessary well into the advanced levels.

    I have an Intermediate/Advanced student who can still make this mistake, but now catches himself. But the 6 months he spent in the US did WONDERS for his English. (of course)


    Love the Feynman link :-) Seriously lacking in experiential education here. Like the way the English teachers don't actually speak English :-(

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  27. I haven't encountered it much in teaching yet, since most of my students are through a school, at an engineering school, and so far they seem to be fairly logical. However, it does frustrate me a lot when I see it in other aspects of life, esp considering I'm a Brazilian who lived in the US for about 15 years of my life. Now that I'm back here, I feel very disappointed in what I hoped would be my glorious native country. Anyhow, here's an article (or chapter of a book I should say) that I found very relevant to the education system in the US (and very likely a good part of the rest of the world). http://www.theodoregray.com/BrainRot/

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  28. I haven't encountered it much in teaching yet, since most of my students are through a school, at an engineering school, and so far they seem to be fairly logical. However, it does frustrate me a lot when I see it in other aspects of life, esp considering I'm a Brazilian who lived in the US for about 15 years of my life. Now that I'm back here, I feel very disappointed in what I hoped would be my glorious native country. Anyhow, here's an article (or chapter of a book I should say) that I found very relevant to the education system in the US (and very likely a good part of the rest of the world). http://www.theodoregray.com/BrainRot/

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  29. I haven't seen this too much in the classroom, as I teach mainly students at an engineering company (though from what I understand of your situation, that doesn't make much of a difference), but I have seen it a lot in daily life and it frustrates the crap out of me. I don't know if being Brazilian and having lived 15 years of my short life in the US makes it more frustrating but I don't see myself living here long term at all despite being a native. It's actually quite disappointing to see your own country turn out to be so crappy in many respects. However when it comes to the public education system in the US (as well as many other countries) I found this really interesting chapter of a book on some math software: http://www.theodoregray.com/BrainRot/

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  30. Hi Danielle,
    I haven't commented here in a long time. This one post was very interesting. My take it that tt's hard to tell anything without knowing your students. When you described what you were going through, I thought you were teaching poorly educated people, but then at the end you said that they are part of the top 5% of this country when it comes to income and education. I was surprised, but there are a lot of variables there. Are they the top 5% now or have been their whole lives? Besides, they might be bad at languages. I am horrible at math. I freeze. I agree that our education system is bad and schools focus on memorization, but that's mostly pubblic schools and shitty private schools. The expensive private schools are much better. Now it's my turn. What do you think of Americans in general? I've heard from two American friends how Americans are dumb. They said it, not me.

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  31. I have three students who tell me how poor they were when growing up. Two of them are sisters and they tell me they got their first tv with their allowances(they didnt have a tv set in the house up until then). The other one watched tv on 5 inches tv. They went to public schools. They make some mistakes when speaking Portuguese, but they are not dumb. They just know grammar terms. They learned with me what an infitive means. They are doing very well considering their background.

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  32. *They just don't know grammar terminology - that's what I meant.

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  33. I have read 6 blog posts of yours so far (stumbled upon it while searching for TOEFL teaching advice) and I swear, except for the Portuguese part (I speak college level spanish) your experience could be mine. Most of my students make me despair at the entire education system in the middle east. My question today was "Dr. Stephen Levitt was the author of the book titled ____"; my student's reply? "Interesting woman?"

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  34. I think you make it a little too hard... People work a lot and think all day long, so they don´t want complex activities and deduction in class.

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    Replies
    1. A class is where you go to learn. Is it really asking too much to expect somebody to think during the process? Otherwise it is a waste of everybody's time.

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